Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

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Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  Scialone on Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:27 pm

Let's forget polemics (just for a moment! ^^) and let's focus on serious stuff: another of my river-long post! Have some coffee before reading! :DD

Anybody knows me as a basic player, and that's right for sure. But lately the basic scenario has become a bit boring: long awaitings before meeting a competitive opponent, big decrease on the number of games per hour (max 2-3), so i turned my face to the battle scene.
Surely i can't say that i'm an expert, but i think i've seen enough things to try and make a sort of judgement of both disciplines.
First i would like to say which are (imvho, considered what i have seen up to now) the pros and cons of each mode, and finally i would like to say which mode in "better" than the other, trying to be the most objective possible (so to avoid things like "basic is better because i say so" or shits like that Very Happy).

Battle mode


- No long awaitings to start a serious match; i know this statement is not agreed by some "old" battle players, but that comes from my direct experience. In battle i never wait "hours" to start a match. Or, at least, i dont wait as much as i wait(ed) in basic. It may appear strange if u consider that basic rooms are always more than battle rooms (excluding guardian) on an average basis, but it's not like that. In fact "quality rooms" are 2-3 in both modes, not more.
- Games usually don't last long (compared to basic); that's imo is another advantage cause this fac let u make more matches in the same spread of time in which in basic u're able to do 1 or 2 at most. Consequently u have more time to play vs the same opponent(s), so to have chance for a rematch or whatever. In the end this type of games are funnier than playing vs different guys any time.


- Like Lobo said some time ago, and i agreed, battle mode requires full-ap equipment + full enchanting to be competitive; this is the major disadvantage (besides a great idea to make cash Very Happy), not only for the "material" cost of ap+enchanting, but also for "the idea" of being "lower equipped" than your opponent and consequently playing with handicap. Think about playing vs AtomSmasher being non-fully-enchanted vs souls, it's impossible Very Happy. In basic, this is not important (or better, this is not fundamental; we shall say it's easier to play full-ap than playing mixed or full-gold, but that doesnt let u win by default), but in battle, no matter what, u gotta be properly equipped or your match is gonna last a bunch of seconds.
- Then there's the well-known "luck factor"; of course it's totally wrong/naive/noob thinking that in battle u win just cause of luck (like someone said in the past Very Happy), but at the same time it would be "blind" to think that luck is totally not involved. I'm talking about situations where quality items (souls, but also blizz and mets) just go to one team in a significant way, e.g. 4/5 souls more than the other team, etc. Fortunately, these situations are not the rule, are just an exception among the normal battle games, and surely they have no influence if u play many games (since the bad luck games will compensate with the good luck games, in the long term). So, maybe, it's not even a matter of luck factor, it's more a matter of playing a good number of battle games to avoid this problem.

Basic mode

Well, the pros and cons of basic are more or less the opposite of what happens in battle (cons -> long awaiting times, long game durations; pros -> no necessity of being ap-hardcore, in general luck is not involved).
The luck issue may be somehow misunderstood here. Of course u also need luck in basic (like, "guessing" where the opponent's gonna shoot or where it'll be the next opponent movement, etc.), but it's totally a different thing than battle: in the former it's more a matter of perception or well-pondered choices, if u like, whereas in the latter it's a matter of mere luck finding a soul instead of a crab.

Anyway, here's my conclusion: i would like to say which mode is better, in an objective way. Yeah, u may ask "Who cares??" Very Happy In the end, who play battle will go on playing battle, and viceversa for basic players. But at the same time i'm convinced that this is a "hidden issue" in any of us. I mean, any of us has an opinion about it, that comes out like a "flag": battle is better, or basic is better, it's something that everybody has talked about, at least once.

Before saying it, i'd like to point out what has to be meant as "better". Like i said at first, it cant be just a matter of personal wishes or tastes, otherwise we'd end up talking about politcs or soccer. Wink
No, imo an activity is better than another when it's more satisfactory, in general.
And more satisfactory most of times means more difficult. Think about real tennis: scoring a difficult crossed backhand passing shot is not the same of scoring a comfortable smash at the net, etc. And surely u like it better the former than the latter.
So, the question is: what mode is more difficult, and consequently more satisfactory, and consequently "better", between basic and battle? Of course im referring to "quality games", excluding noobhunting or whatever.

Well, my answer is basic.

Basic is more difficult than battle, on an average basis, for a simple reason: time, time "to think" precisely.
Maybe im wrong, but having played a lot of basic games and a good number of battle games, i saw that in battle u got more time to think about what to do, e.g. whether casting immediately or waiting, whether go front or stay back/side, etc.
In basic it's not like that. Specially when u play pro-games the time to think reduces a lot, often less than a second. And a good (bad) choice taken in this very little time often means win (or lose).
Yes, in battle u have to pay attention to the items found by each player at any time, and that's quite hard at the beginning. But with some excercise you can handle this peculiar stuff. I (almost) did it, and this means anybody can as well! Wink
But at least from my side, i can say that u never get used of the high speed of some basic games.
An example is always useful to clear things out (talking about a short-crossed lob):

Fard wrote:I did it cuz I knew Zanretsu is rusty and he would take a straight stroke or short lob. And I had less than 1 sec to think and scia was back. If I had done a ls, Zan would catch it.

Now, this is exactly what i mean. Scoring in these hard situations gives a huge payback. ^^

So, the logical chain is this: basic compared to battle --> less time to think --> more difficoult --> more satisfactory --> basic better than battle!

The ball is all yours. ^_^

Can you imagine what I would do if I could do all I can?


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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  Lobotron on Thu Jun 03, 2010 10:46 pm

What is better fish or meat?. For me two modes are differents. A hard battle match is difficult and a hard basic match too, for sure. The problem is to play hard matches.


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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  Ancorina on Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:07 pm

well i totally agree with scialone .

sure battle is "funny"

but i think basic is more difficult , u have to improve a lot your skills to be competitive, in battle "tennis skills" are quinte useless

in fact the most battlers are not good in basic , yes u can say "basic players aren't good in battle" but isn't rly true because if u take a basic player (good 1) u give him a will/sta char (so don't concerne a lot of items) he will play well or at least better than the battler who play basic

anyways nice post cheers

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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post   on Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:33 pm

I played around 1500 games in Battle (And already better than kaiser with his 8,5k Battle-experience, rofl) and it's still hard for me to find the best possible chemistry in Battle. Often I can't cover my partners in Battle due concentrating on the ball, playing Basic in the Battle-Mode happens always to me.

In my opinion the Battle-mode isn't that hard, as Basic-player you can't face the best player of this mode with item-timing and sorta stuff, but you can always win a Battle-game. I would put my ass on line that Battle-player aren't able to bash a semi-good working Basic-team. You can equilibrate a lack of experience/skill in Battle with "luck", stats, good partner or soul-hack Wink But imo you can't equilibrate a lack of experience/skill in the Basic-mode. In Basic you must be concentrated as hell, especially against Front/Back I've seen a lot of problems for Battle-player.

In the whole game, there's only 1 imba Battle-player with bad Basic-skill. And that's SoyPaleta, he's even better playing the ball in Battle than in Basic ^^ But for example ViCeN, pedrin or Atom have a lot of experience in Basic. (ViCeN's chara is perfect for 1vs1, Atom has almost more Basic-games than in Battle and pedrin is always playing the ball in 2vs2 Battle-team) If you know how to play Basic, you will be top in Battle with a good chemistry between you and the partner and some experience. (See Atoms thread about Battle)

On the other hand, there are also players who improved and got some Basic-skills in Battle. But often as Backplayers, Alca and Mado are both able to play as Backplayer. They have a lot of experience in covering the ball in Battle, so it's no big deal for them. Lon and Usta played the majority of their Battle-games front, so they are good front but if they have to play Sides or Back... a lack of skill.

At the end it would be cool to see Battle-player in Basic-mode 2 years ago. Nowadays with imba clothes it became easier for them to win against us Basic-ppl. I also prefer more to play with technique than with Charge and since some months (Updates xD) I have to take every opponent serious.
I guess the future of more and more Basic-player will be the Battle-mode. I can't imagine me there.
Well my result is that Battle is easier to learn and play than Basic. But... what do you expect from a Basic-fanboy? Anyway, that's my experience in both modes.

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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  ramix on Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:52 am

Maybe I've never played a very good match in basic, I should play more to write a serious argument. I prefer battle, I think is faster and, for me, more exciting. About basic, it is the perfection, the style of the technics, more serious, and more interesting to see if more or less you know something about it. Battle games in general are not unusual. I've always played battle and i love it but i also like basic the difference is that battle has something special.

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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  YuriSama18 on Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:14 am

Best mod is basic, becouse thats a skill buisness the opposite is battle maybe i m unlucky but ive losed many times there becouse of my opponent get 7 souls in a row the second match like 10 souls ,battle makes me definatly mad(got a few banns becouse i tryed play battle) but ,sometimes its cool if the oppenent not luck that much, well maybes it my bad that i die always fast becouse i play basic mod in battle sometimes if im pissed off , of that luck from the enemy well i plan to make my harun2 a full wil rest sta player with 9 water and 9 fire but who knows when it will be real only wishes atm lol

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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

Post  LovaX on Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:32 pm

YuriSama18 wrote:(got a few banns becouse i tryed play battle)

Laughing Laughing Laughing

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Re: Hamlet used to say "To basic, or to battle: that is the question"

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